Index ← 3465 CFJ 3466 3467 → text
=============================  CFJ 3466  =============================

      It is possible to ratify an Agoran Credit Union report, and have
      the ratification have some effect.

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Caller:                      ais523           

Judge:                       nichdel           
Judgement:                   TRUE           

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History:

Called by ais523:            10 Nov 2016
Assigned to nichdel:         19 May 2017
Judged TRUE by nichdel:      21 May 2017

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Caller's Arguments:

The report is concerned entirely with things that aren't
defined by the rules. As such, what could ratifying it change? In
particular, this is a question about whether the Agoran Credit Union's
internal state is part of the gamestate.

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Gratuitous Evidence by G.:
(announcement of intent that gave rise to the CFJ)

On Sun, 2016-11-06 at 15:58 -0500, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> I intend, without objection, to ratify the quoted document below, no
> earlier than Thursday, November 10th.
>
> It’s not a self-ratifying report given in the rules. In fact, I can’t
> find any reason this report should exist at all, except that murphy
> had been sending it and that it’s useful for ACU members. However,
> the bank statements are way behind, so I’m hoping to use ratification
> to avoid any future questions about the correctness of the balances
> described.

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Gratuitous Arguments by Aris:

The ACU is an organization under Agoran law. There is no evidence that
it has or is intended to have any existence apart from its existence
in Agora (Agora is even in the name), and it would be unable to
function elsewhere (for instance in another nomic) because of its
reliance on the structures provided by Agoran law. It's state should
therefore be considered part of the gamestate. It is a player created
organization, but it is regulated because it is allowed to exist by,
and its behavior governed by, the rules (Rule 2125). Since its
internal state should be considered part of the gamestate, just as the
organization is part of the game, ratification can affect it (Rule
1551). This CFJ should be therefore be judged TRUE.

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Judge's Arguments:

CFJ 3466 is as follows:

      It is possible to ratify an Agoran Credit Union report, and have
      the ratification have some effect.

The first half of this statement, about whether it's possible to
ratify an ACU report at all, is clearly TRUE. R2202/6 provides for the
ability of any player to ratify, without objection, any document as
long as it doesn't change rules or contain factual errors.

The second half, if it can have an effect, is also TRUE. R1551/18
allows for ratification to change gamestate, subject to mostly the
same restrictions as above. And since this ratification is secured at
Power 3, it appears that an ACU report (or any other document) could
be ratified to change anything that has a lower power threshold.

For those reasons, I find CFJ 3466 TRUE.

However, neither of those findings satisfies the caller's underlying
question [1], because it appears that ratification would make the
report part of the gamestate whether or not it was previously.

For this, we should first look at the extent of the concept of 'game
state' or 'gamestate' (apparently interchangeable) in Agora. CFJ 1420
indicates that there are at least some elements of gamestate that make
no appearance in the rules [2]. This lends credence to the idea that
gamestate includes things not mentioned by the rules, but little other
precedent appears to exist here.

This leads us to turn to 'common sense' and the best interests of
Agora. I believe that it would be bad for Agora to conclude that the
internal state of organizations affects the overall state of Agora in
ways that are not intended or expected. However, I do think that
players intend the happenings of organizations to be wholly contained
within the context of Agora. I also believe that players want
mechanisms intended for all of Agora, such as CFJs and conditionals,
to function the same in the context of organizations. Thus, I find it
likely that the internal state of organizations is a self-contained
portion of Agora's gamestate, which can be made a part of the broader
gamestate via ratification as well as any other rule-defined methods.

[1] "The report is concerned entirely with things that aren't defined
by the rules. As such, what could ratifying it change? In particular,
this is a question about whether the Agoran Credit Union's internal
state is part of the gamestate."

[2] https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1420

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