Index ← 3447 CFJ 3448 3449 → text
=============================  CFJ 3448  =============================
      It is POSSIBLE for a player to win by Raising a Banner and, if a
      player wins the game, a new game begins.       


Caller:                      scshunt                   

Judge:                       G.            
Judgement:                   TRUE



Called by scshunt:           13 May 2015
Assigned to G.:              17 May 2015
Judged TRUE by G.:           22 May 2015


Caller's Arguments:

I believe R101 now takes precedence over 1023.


Judge's Arguments:

"Hey, I just bought a game of Cosmic Encounters".  "Really?  I'll come
over and we'll play a game."  "Oh, do you know the game?"  "Yes."

Here, in common language, "game" is used clearly in three contexts:
(1) a physical copy; (2) an instance of play, and (3) a platonic
set of rules that can be "known".  As shown, it's perfectly reasonable
to have multiple definitions of this term even within a single
exchange.  So supporting multiple definitions in a ruleset shouldn't
be over-challenging, provided the context is clear in each particular

R101 doesn't define "game" per se; rather, it defines Agora as an
instance of the game of Nomic, then in clear context, states that
Agora (i.e. "the game") may be won, but doesn't end:

      Agora is a game of Nomic, wherein Persons, acting in accordance
      with the Rules, communicate their game Actions and/or results of
      these actions via Fora in order to play the game.  The game may
      be won, but the game never ends. 

This makes perfect sense if "Agora" is substituted for each instance
of "the game".  The implication "doesn't end" means that whatever Agora
is, we are talking about its ongoing present state.  Therefore, it's
also reasonable to consider the undefined term "gamestate" as
synonymous with "the game of Agora" described in R101.  This usage of
"game" is fairly clear in R2141 and R217 ("game custom" and "good of
the game" are clearly ongoing considerations - you can't have game
custom without a game history), and the rules make perfect sense if
you replace "gamestate" with "game Agora" in the rules.

Conversely, R2141 defines "game" as a unit of time between wins, while
qualifying that this term is used only in certain circumstances (time
intervals).  Since the definition allows a unique temporal ordering of
the games, this is what R104 refers to as the "first" game.

So what happens when a player "wins the game"?  There is nothing
contradictory in saying that BOTH (a) the records of the Gamestate
reflect that the player "won Agora" on such and such a date; and (2)
if a "becoming a winner" caused the Nth (time-unit) game to end and a
new one to begin, that the winners also won that Nth game.

And what does this mean for Raising the Banner?  Rule 2438/1 reads:

      While a person owns all types of Ribbon, that person can Raise a
      Banner by announcement. This causes that person to win the game
      and a new game begins.

Here, it's ambiguous what type of "game" is beginning.  But simply: 
if it's referring to a time-unit game, it's a no-op; R2141 already
covers moving from the Nth game to the N+1th game.   If it refers to a
starting a "new Agora", that would be counter-intuitive.  R2438
makes it clear that it's not changing the whole gamestate when games
begin, which that fits clearly with the time-interval definition. 

So in fact, it's possible to raise the banner and win the game.
Reading the Caller's "game" in the CFJ as referring to the time
interval (not the Game of Agora), it works, and Agora doesn't end.