Index ← 2273 CFJ 2274a 2274 → text
============================  Appeal 2274a  ============================

Panelist:                               BobTHJ
Decision:                               REASSIGN

Panelist:                               ais523
Decision:                               REASSIGN

Panelist:                               omd
Decision:                               REASSIGN



Appeal initiated:                       21 Nov 2008 20:44:29 GMT
Assigned to BobTHJ (panelist):          25 Nov 2008 20:32:57 GMT
Assigned to ais523 (panelist):          25 Nov 2008 20:32:57 GMT
Assigned to omd (panelist):             25 Nov 2008 20:32:57 GMT
omd moves to REASSIGN:                  01 Dec 2008 22:48:49 GMT
ais523 moves to REASSIGN:               01 Dec 2008 22:54:17 GMT
BobTHJ moves to REASSIGN:               02 Dec 2008 23:28:43 GMT
Final decision (REASSIGN):              03 Dec 2008 17:15:28 GMT


Gratuitous Arguments by omd:

On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Warrigal  wrote:
> I object, as Murphy's arguments and my response point out that this is
> unreasonable.

Which arguments?  root clarified that the most recent time that this
was defined was not February 2008 but December 2007.  Indeed, a
"Democratic proposal" has not been defined for a year... but the
concept has been defined in some form or another as far back as 1996,
only a few years after Agora's formation [1].

Rule 754 applies only if an ambiguity in meaning is created: such an
ambiguity was created here.  Sure, Murphy and root obviously intended
to make the decisions to adopt the proposals Democratic, not the
proposals themselves, but Agora is not in the habit of interpreting
messages to mean what the sender meant.  In fact, quite the opposite--
setting power of a proposal, I register as a watcher... if a person
words his message substantially incorrectly, there is a strong
precedent that it's ineffective.  I argue that confusing a proposal
with the Agoran decision to adopt a proposal, when the action
attempted thereby becomes ambiguous, is substantially incorrect.

Anyway, Warrigal was originally involved in the creation of this scam;
I suggest the case be REASSIGNED due to a conflict of interest.

[1] The earliest reference I can find to a "Democratic proposal":

Rule 1680/0 (Mutable, MI=1)
The Power of Democracy

      There is a Power called the Power of Democracy. It can be cast
      on any one Proposal, specified by the Caster, and called the
      Democratic Proposal. The effect of the Power of Democracy is to
      limit the Votes cast on the Democratic Proposal.

      The Card of the Power of Democracy is in Limbo for ten days
      after it is cast. The price of the Democracy Card is 30 Mil.

      The Caster can only cast the Power of Democracy by sending a
      message to the Assessor unambiguously identifying the Proposal
      which is to be the Democratic Proposal, otherwise the Power is
      not legally cast.

      The Votes cast on a Democratic Proposal are limited in the
      following manner:  The Assessor shall only record one Vote from
      each non-Immune Active Player who chooses to Vote.  Extra Votes
      cast by any Entity other than an Immune Player, and Votes from
      non-Player entities are not counted in determining the results
      of a Vote on a Democratic Proposal.

      If an entity other than an Immune Player has already cast Extra
      Votes on the Democratic Proposal at the time it became
      Democratic, then these Extra Votes are without effect on the
      Democratic Proposal, and their Limbo Period ends immediately
      without their being transferred to the Bank.

      Players who are Immune are not bound by the limitations set by
      this Rule as long as any Extra Votes they cast were done so
      during the duration of their Immunity.

      If the casting of this Power conflicts with the casting of any
      Power other than the Powers of Immunity and Neutralize, the
      Power of Democracy takes precedence, the other Power is
      nullified and has no effect.  If another Power is nullified
      because of the precedence of the Democracy Card, the cost of the
      nullified Power is transferred to the Player who cast it.  This
      transfer occurs at the end of the Voting Period for the
      Democratic Proposal. The Assessor is responsible for detecting
      and reporting these transfers.

      This Rule takes precedence over other Rules which describe the
      circumstances in which Players may legally cast Extra Votes,
      over Rules which describe the effects of legally cast Extra
      Votes on Proposals, and over Rules describing what Entities are
      permitted to cast Votes on Proposals in general.

      If this Rule conflicts in its effects with those of another
      Rule defining a specific Power, then the conflict shall be
      resolved according to the Rule for determining precedence
      among Powers.

Created by Proposal 2780 (Swann), Dec. 27 1996


Gratuitous Evidence by omd:

I submit the following list of attempts to make things democratic as
evidence in CFJ 2274.  Most such attempts have correctly referred to
Agoran decisions.

May 21  BUS: Farming/Democracy
 I intend, with 2 support, to change the decision to adopt Proposal
 5520 to Democratic.

Jun 30  BUS: Re: OFF: distribution of proposals 5577-5584
 FOR*4. With 2 support, I intend to make this decision (on whether to
 adopt proposal 5582) Democratic.

Jul 19  BUS: Democratic CFJs
 I intend, with two support, to make proposal 5650 democratic.

Jul 23  BUS: 3 / 11 = ???
 I intend, with 2 support, to make Proposal 5657 Democratic.

Jul 23  BUS: RE: Re: OFF: distribution of proposals 5640-5648
 With 2 support, I intend to make that decision democratic.

Sep 23  BUS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Promotor] Distribution of proposal 5707
 I intend, with 2 support, to make the decision on whether to adopt
 proposal 5707 democratic.

Nov 4   BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5833-5840
 I intend with 2 support to make the decision on whether to adopt
 proposal 5837 democratic.

Nov 5   BUS: in the spirit of the recent Democratic electoral victory
 I intend, with 2 support, to make the decisions to adopt proposals
 5842-5941 Democratic.

Nov 16  BUS: democracy rules
 I intend, with 2 support, to make the Agoran Decision on whether to
 adopt proposal 5966 Democratic.


Gratuitous Arguments by Machiavelli:

Looks like this is going to appeal. I ask for a judgement other than
REMAND, so that this case can get a fresh judge and I can get a fresh


Panelist omd's Arguments:

This panel judges CFJ 2274a REASSIGN, because new arguments have
come up but its judge does not want the case back..