Index ← 1269 CFJ 1270 1271 → text
==============================  CFJ 1270  ==============================

    There is no ordering to the statements 'I become a scribe.' and 'I
    become a politician.' in first message in which Syllepsis so stated


Caller:                                 Syllepsis

Judge:                                  Ziggy
Judgement:                              FALSE



Called by Syllepsis:                    08 Feb 2001 02:59:01 GMT
Judged FALSE by Ziggy:                  10 Feb 2001 21:21:19 GMT
Assigned to Ziggy:                      10 Feb 2001 21:40:32 GMT


Caller's Arguments:

The two statements shared the beginning character "I" and the ending
character "." at the exact same point in the message, and furthermore
wrap to the left and right, and up and down, so that one can not be
discerned to be above or to the left of the other.

One may also make the point that this message was written in a concrete
poetic form, which is not normally considered to have any order.


Judge Ziggy's Arguments:

I agree that there is no definitive ordering of these statements in the

However, I disagree with the assertion that "there is no ordering" to them.
For example, various Players have put forth the following interpretations
on agora-discussion:

- Grech said that one can parse it from left to right and top to bottom,
  and the Scribe attempt thus finishes first

- loh also mentions "left-to-right, top-to-bottom", and sees the message
  as interpretable as '"[]" or "X" (i.e., they flow downward side-by-side
  or cross at "a")'

- Goethe rotates eir eyes 90 degrees to read it.

Therefore, I conclude that not only is there an ordering to the statements
in that message, but that there are many different (and yes, contradictory)
orderings.  Thus I Judge CFJ 1270 FALSE.


Judge Ziggy's Evidence:

Grech in <135842274.981498008754.JavaMail.root@boots>:
    I base this claim on the fact that, if parsed from left to right, top
    to bottom, in the standard English fashion, the sentence "I become a
    Scribe" is complete before the sentence "I become a Politician".
    Ergo, according to Rule 1527, Syllepsis first attempts to become a
    Scribe, and then attempts to become a Politican, separated by
    infinitesimal amounts of time.  According to Rule 1960, his first
    attempt is successful, as e has publicly stated the role (Scribe) e
    is changing to.  His second attempt is unsuccessful, as an
    infinitesimal amount of time is clearly less than the three months
    required by Rule 1960.

loh in <>:
    Rule 1527 uses "order of appearance".  Implicit in that is the
    traditional (?) direction of text flow in the language of the message.
    In this case, left-to-right, top-to-bottom.

    The message itself is "intended to be read with a fixed width font",
    which emphasizes the horizontal properties of the message.

    Because it's not clear whether to interpret the sentences to be
    physically structured as "[]" or "X" (i.e., they flow downward
    side-by-side or cross at "a"), I fall back on ltr-ttb, where
    "Politician" is encountered first.

Goethe in
    On the other hand, the first thing I did was rotate my eyes 90
    degrees, which puts "scribe" on TOP of "politician".  (Rotating the
    other way makes the message upside down and backwards).  And then
    there is (of course) the left to right "I bbeeccoommee a" interpretation. Last I checked, there were no
    PSocliriitbiecians among us.  Maybe e was intending to create a
    new role with this name?  I suggest that we create the
    PSocliriitbiecian role to solve this problem.