Participate -- Communicate -- Pontificate:

Thu Dec 11 23:40:50 PST 1997 - Just one more comment and then I'll be on my way. Nicely worded coment down there Macy. However, the complaints I hear about the information age -- that everyone can't afford a personal computer and the internet is loaded with junk, seem to pale in comparison to the other benefits of new technology. (in my humble opinion, that is). The information age isn't just about the web or having your own PC. New technology leads to benefits for everyone that reach far beyond that. Think about medical advances possible due to new technolgy, or I think Scott mentioined all the daily activities that involve "computers" like cars and such. PC's and www are a small part of an entire technology revolution. They get a lot of press, but i think there is a lot more to it.
Tammy

Thu Dec 11 23:27:55 PST 1997 - The Information Age Is Here To Stay: There's been many varied responses to this discussion on the internet, the world wide web, telecommunications, and the information explosion in general. The responses ranged from "Luddite-ish" to extremely pro-technology. Well, folks, the "cyber-world" seems to be here to stay. There's never been an example, that I can think of in history, where technology advancements on this large of a scale have been stopped or reversed. You've basically got three choices: ignore it, fight it, or run with it! It seems that realistically there is no choice but to move forward along with everyone else into the Information Age.

While, understandably, the web and new information technologies can be daunting because they are unfamiliar, confusing or costly, I think, we have no choice but to embrace the Information Age. Current information technology can make your personal life easier, is a great resource for the corporate world, and has produced an entirely new arena for communication.

New technology makes correspondence easier with e-mail capabilities. It provides a resource that links the user to a nearly infinite amount of resources with a few clicks of a mouse. (Granted often it is difficult to sort through this information, yet it's basically free. . . and since some of us have more time than money, it can be well worth it.) From home, with new technology, you can shop, bank, look for a job, post a discussion, play a game of chess with someone on the other side of the world, get the Wall Street Journal or New York Times. Basically you can get information, communication, entertainment and make commercial purchases without ever leaving your home. Of course, this is not to say that never leaving your home is a good thing. However, these capabilities give you the option to deal with the daily activities of your choice in a simple, effective and fast manner.

Thu Dec 11 19:29:52 PST 1997 - In response to Kristen from Sunday, December 7th. She is entirely correct to say that our children are the future. Duh, they only get older. Just kidding. No, it is very important that these children are educated properly, and that means throwing a computer in front of them at an early age. Wouldn't that be wonderful to see your children on the computer for eight hours a day, rather than watching television for eight hours a day. Think about it. I couldn't agree more with Kristen that since this class begun, we have also all become more computer oriented. This entails not only the internet, but also writing web pages, searching for resources for our specific topics with search engines, using email more than we should, and also using UWIN to conduct searches of materials in the libraries, without even having to go to the libraries! This has been a wonderful experience for all of us! I feel that Brian McCall also made an interesting point about the computer training we have. We were all fortunate enough to have Wayne and Krumme to help us out. Their training and use of examples helped to lead the way to my understanding of specific areas in the computer field. Another good point was made by Scott a couple of comments down.

Won't it be easy for everyone and easier for those of us who already know, to do almost everything over internet access, either by computer or television or wrist watch? Think about it. But does it take away from the social aspect, that in one way or another, connects us all either by force or choice? What would we be like if all we did was a result of computer aid? Sex would not be as fun <-- just an example. I have no grudge with Macy and his computer links. Hah, hah. I feel computers are here to help us in the future, but the computer is only as smart as the human who improves it. Let's hope, for our sake, that humans get stupid quick. This will prevent the computers from taking over total domination of us and the world.
- David Geography 350

Tue Dec 9 03:02:21 PST 1997 - I've been reconsidering my earlier statement about the internet as the great integrator of technology (of which, communications is just one) and the limitations it will have in our society. Clearly, we have more access to information of all sorts, shapes, and sizes than we ever had before the internet crept into our lives. When I mentioned we were being "assimilated" by the internet I was referring to the subtle ways technology replaces or is replaced by new technologies in our daily lives. A simple example is automotive repair. It used to be a good mechanic could pretty much completely disassemble a car and understand exactly how it worked. Today, some mechanics use computerized diagnostic machines to "talk" to your car (if it is a newer model) to figure out where the problem areas are to be fixed. Most mechanics couldn't tell you how the computer program works because they don't need to know. Just like the mechanic, I believe we are moving in the direction of enhanced technologies; technologies that already exist and are used by everyone who today owns a home, a car, a television, or a phone. These items and many others will be enhanced or integrated by computer processors and the internet. My housemate, who is skeptical of my predictions, said forty percent of households do not own a personal computer. He countered my assimilation hypothesis with a litany of deficiencies ranging from prohibitive costs to insufficient infrastructures to a lack of computer literacy in the general population.

The human obstacles are very real and surely the number of computer literate individuals who own personal computers powerful enough to manage all the high-tech software out there is acutally much smaller than the sixty percent number of households who own computers would seem to indicate. It is the well-educated and privelegded people in our society who are raving about the "internet revolution", for in their lives (and ours) computers are changing how we study, work, and live. The real revolution will occur when the same mechanic who works on cars does his finances, book-keeping, and taxes at home on the TV via an internet connection to a small business program because it is cheaper, quicker, and easier to use than any other alternative. The vanguard of the revolution are paving the way for the rest of us to follow in digital footsteps. The young programmers, designers, and entrepreneurs are developing new exciting technology most of us will only read about AND applying it to boring everyday things we all do so that we will be able to do them in the future with computer. The advantages are declining measures of distance, time, and scope, i.e., we can instantly travel via our computer to a virtual library and select any publication available. When they can design a computer as a book-like analog then we will be on the way towards such a reality. Maybe it will be a plug-in book? (with a rechargeable battery!) It won't be computers on desks that make the revolution. It will be computers that look, feel, and act like books (any book, at anytime -- for a small fee) that will make this a revolution.
Scott, Geog 350

Sat Dec 6 20:20:48 PST 1997 - I couldn't agree more with Scott's earlier statements about computers being extremely beneficial. I too am quite happily assimilated into this computer age we are experiencing. Although some have expressed fears of "society becoming virtual computer slaves", I think what we really need is more focus on computer training. Indeed some teachers and parents are going to be stuck in their old fashioned "back in my day" philosophy of educating, but hopefully the excuses and can'ts will give way to the necessary computer instruction that will separate those who become valuable in job markets of the future and those who don't. Taking this 350 class has opened a whole new dimension to my education, and it disappoints me that it didn't happen sooner. I'm quite jealous of the elementary students Nathan mentioned, the ones that Krumme talked about in class. At the rate they're learning, they'll be better equipped to land a good job by eighth grade than I will be after college graduation. Computers are constantly becoming a bigger part of our future, and as we allow children (and adults alike) to access them, we all benefit in the long run.
--sez Brian 350

Fri Dec 5 16:06:38 PST 1997 - George of 350 sez: Giving used tech and computers to people is a great idea. So is increased access in libraries and schools. On a related note, why is it that tech advances (seemingly) so fast and we accept it unquestioningly?

I own a 486 computer with 8M RAM and 64M memory (I think). I bought it in 1995 and it is already worthless. This summer it was in my dad's office when the place was burglarized. The thieves took every piece of electronic equipment except my computer because they knew it would have no resale value. If I attempted to run any of the advanced lab programs on my machine it would crash. Yet in all honesty it is more than I need. All I use is the word processor, which does everything I ask of it. All the other programs are superfluous. Getting more memory (3G is the standard now, I believe) would let me add more useless programs, and getting 64M RAM, which I believe is the standard, would cut the time it takes to load the word processor from 10 seconds to less than one. Is this really worth shelling out $2000 every few years? The only thing I wish I had that I don't is a fast internet connection. A recent article in the Seattle Times advised that people shouldn't get computers with all the bells and whistles, and then listed what is apparently essential: 64M RAM, 3 gigabytes memory, a 16X CD-ROM, a 20 inch monitor, full surround sound, etc. This is very useful if you are an engineer or a graphic designer or someone else who needs a large computer because you depend on programs that require that kind of power. But for the vast majority of computer buyers this technology is wasted, as it will never be used. The worst thing is you can't buy a scaled-down version of a computer. One with a regular monitor and enough memory to deliver decent-speed internet would be fine with me, but that's unavailable unless I factory order and pay all kinds of special fees.

Things like this make me wonder if the PC revolution is even real at the household level. Engineers at Boeing develop incredibly complex software to build and land planes and the like, and NASA sends rockets to Saturn. This is where the real technology revolution is taking place, and the developments in these fields eventually effect our lives in ways much more significant than what computer we have (Climate scenarios, currency markets, biotechnology, etc.) By comparison, Microsoft is just putting shrink wrap around products that were obsolete years ago and selling them at ridiculous prices to a gullible public swept up by fluff pieces in Newsweek about Bill Gates being the second coming of Christ. Word processors are infinitely better than typewriters (imagine trying to write a mistake-free term paper on a typewriter, where every spelling error required retyping the whole page and every time you wrote another draft you would have to do the whole thing over.) The internet is incredibly useful too.

Nothing else released by the PC industry has had any real impact on me, despite all the hype. It really seems like much of the "information revolution" is a bubble that needs to be popped.

Fri Dec 5 15:01:51 PST 1997 - For this last discussion, I would like to offer my insight, or lack there of, on the future. These revelations came about through direct conversations with god, whom I confide in daily. First of all, god told me to be weary of getting caught up in the internet "explosion". Rather, it may be a "glass bead game" of sorts(to steal from Hesse). That is, it could be that this integration of information is leading to a thesis that has nothing to do with its source. A never ending dialectic that is creating its own identity. Internet and telecommunications technologies are building a system that feeds on and off itself. While the content of the web is continually growing, I think it is falling short of its intended purpose. Although I have no idea of the real purpose of these technologies, my limited perception would lead me to believe that it is used to bring people and ideas together. Now, while this may be the intended purpose of the web, etc... I would ask you to search the web for a couple of hours. Like everything else, the internet has many good qualities and sites and also the opposite.

Unfortunately, it seems like I have to sift through the latter to find the former. The technology is like a tree without roots, or a glass bead. I wonder how long the internet can hold credibility as a viable source of information. That is not to say that the internet completely lacks purpose, but rather the purpose may be misunderstood or forgotten. Okay, maybe we can take the internet at face value, a capitalist tool to find product recognition. I think that this must be the real purpose of the net. It is industry which drives these technologies, keeps it running smoothly, and feeds it to the general population. All right, I'm being too critical so I'll stop. GOD=GOODALL!! -Macy 350

From the Prof: Here is my non-visionary, rather conservative and crude look into the crystal ball. In a nutshell, I tend to agree with the more cautious of your views expressed in this discussion over the past two months.

As you have found out, I am wildly enthusiastic about some of our relatively recent new communications technology. This enthusiasm has probably more to do with the fact that so little has happened during my first 30 years in education, and that I need some change & excitement to stay motivated, than it has to do with a belief that a true revolution has just started. I am convinced that in dueeeeeee time, the new technology will be accepted by more colleagues and will have a hopefully positive effect on education. But as with most new technologies, the effects will be much smaller than anticipated by those who engage in simple extrapolations. In education and elsewhere, we will adjust to the new technologies, absorb the most suitable and economic features and incorporate them readily into our daily way of doing things, almost in order to be able to continue to live as we always lived, i.e. in order to have to change relatively little in the remainder of our lives. Yes, the new technologies will permit us to respond in some measure to the pressures around us (productivity and cost pressures, congestion etc.) and will make it less necessary to adjust in more drastic ways elsewhere.

We have had a tendency to overestimate the impacts of new technologies largely due to "euphoric technological tunnel vision" and an underestimation of other (e.g. economic and environmental) constraints (You must have heard of the SST enthusiasm in the late 1960s). The new communications technologies, however, may be different in their interaction with such constraints. Thus, they will be accepted (absorbed) more readily, but will also have much less "cyber impacts" on our lives than is wi(l)d(e)ly speculated. G.K.

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 19:08:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeanne
Subject: Final Online Discussion 12/4/97

Societal and Spatial Effects of Telecommunications Technologies

The recent advancements in telecommunication which have occurred at a rate far greater than any comparable phenomena have undoubtedly yielded a considerable effect on society, both psychologically and spatially.

When you consider a kindergarten student, once concerned with simple letter recognition and adding 1 + 2 or simply understanding the beginnings of social interaction, surfing the internet or competing electronically with classmates in video golf, you begin to wonder if the lack of more traditional age appropriate activities might contribute to later social or behavioral difficulties. I've also witnessed a tremendous increase in home schooling utilizing the internet as a resource promoting communication computer screen to computer screen rather than face-to-face. There must be something said for the benefits of verbal communication within the same spatial plane. If telecommunication continues to increase in popularity at the rate it has been in the past decade, society may become virtual computer slaves, determined to communicate without ever making a personal appearance. I can only imagine what might happen if a sudden blackout would occur or if a powerful computer virus would infiltrate and devour the system. We just may have a suicidal frenzy reminiscent of the stock market crash of 1929!

Of course, there are many beneficial aspects to this technological phenomenon. Students can now produce more papers more quickly than ever before and glean more information from more sources than ever before. But we have been warned by our friends in the media that all internet sources are not created equal. Likewise, businesses can exchange information, place rapid-fire orders, turn out fancy forecasts, design new facilities, and hire and fire employees all at the touch of a keypad. And you no longer have to live within the spatial reality of your employer or work for a company with a stake in your local economy; telecommuting has arrived. In many sectors of the economy, facility location and workforce supply are no longer spatially linked. Certainly, total decentralization may ultimately claim victory.

An unfortunate side effect of telecommunications technologies is the despair that many of the "older generation" may be experiencing as less and less services are accessible to them unless they possess the knowledge of and have access to the hardware and software necessary for adequate computer operation. Yes, I do realize that this knowledge and equipment can be acquired, yet it is important to remember that not everyone possesses the intelligence, stamina, willpower, nor the financial means to successfully accomplish such a task.

I can remember being in high school in the late 60's and begging my instructors to allow me to submit my term papers hand-printed because I could not afford to purchase a typewriter. I can also remember being in college in the early 70's and being forced to stand in line for hours to purchase a simple calculator for over $100 (a week's wages at that time) just to begin to compete in a chemistry class.

I am well aware that this will eventually become a moot point as all of the "older generation" will be non-existent, yet there will always be those in much less fortunate circumstances. And, although touted as global in scope, society will likely have to continue to cope with the lack of computer prowess in developing countries for quite some time. While conceding that certain aspects of these new techno-communicative wonders are quite beneficial to society, I can only hope that other personal attributes beyond telecommunication capabilities are taken into consideration when evaluating the individual as a vital contributor to society as a whole. (Thank you for listening!)

Thu Dec 4 17:21:39 PST 1997 - Actually think about three, or four weeks ago when Prof. Krumme told us about the children using HyperCard to create school projects. My mother used to work for Apple and she doesn't even know how to use HyperCard. Kids these days are learning things that you and I would have never been able to fathom twenty, or even ten years ago. Technology has made a big difference not only in business and science, but in education as well. Monique has a good solution for decreasing the gap of accessibility for all persons, in order to make things less expensive. Try telling that to Adobe, who might sell a program for $450. The solution lies somewhere in between partnerships between public and private sectors, like I have mentioned in our web page about transportation. That is a good approach as some governments, though taxing, in my mind, too high of rates, they have problems allocating their money efficiently, or in the best place for everyone. If a politician saw it fit to get money for some programs, I d on't think it would be particularly easy. Microsoft has given some things to some universities and school districts. It is not enough, though. Therefore the idea of giving old technology to people who cannot otherwise afford it is great idea and will decrease the gap between those who can, and those who cannot afford to own a computer. This class has been a tremendous help in increasing my knowledge of the internet and its related technologies. It has been a great experience and other classes ought to go with some sort of format where technology can be implemented into more class curricula. This would increase everyone's worth in the business world, and would also increase their knowledge, in general. Good discussions group!

Nathan

Thu Dec 4 05:52:27 PST 1997 - Think back 15 years ago when computers were barely being introduced into the schools. Very few people could afford computers at home, let alone even wanted computers at home. People didn't want to adapt to the new frontier, thinking it might possibly be a "phase". Well, that phase is here to stay and will continue to progress with time. So, what has happened since then? Many more people have purchased computers for home use, no, not everyone can afford them or more to the point, not everyone can afford to have computers with all the bells and whistles. However, as businesses, universities, public education in general, expands, there is an "out with the old, in with the new" trend taking place. What happens with the old? Some are donated, some a re left to gather dust in a supply room. If people are so concerned about a separation between rich and poor, then continue to make technology available to those who cannot afford to buy their own computer. Old computers can be found for little to no co st, just read the classifieds. No, these computers do not come with all the bells and whistles of the latest and greatest, but they will enable people to connect to the Internet, even if that only connection involves e-mail.

Also, more options are becoming available in elementary schools, allowing kids to learn about computers, e-mail and the world wide web. Sure, some kids have an advantage because they can go home and spend hours on personal computers while others cannot. Perhaps an option would be to open computer labs of these elementary schools in the evenings with parents supervising (and learning) so that these kids can have an opportunity to spend more time on computers, heck, maybe they can teach their parents a thing or two!

The fact of the matter is that technological advances are going to continue, rather than fight it, we need to find ways to make it work for all classes of society, rather than merely pointing out how much it will separate the "rich" from the "poor".
Monique 350

Wed Dec 3 21:02:36 PST 1997 - On prior comments in regards to the division of rich and poor in regards to technology, information age, computers, etc. I note several comments throughout the discussion in regards to certain sectors of society not having financial means to join the "cyberworld". So, what is the point of this statement? Either a) the point is, it is bad, because not everyone can afford it. Or b) What should we do about this. I'm not sure which of these points is being made by the comments in regards to everyone not being able to afford to be part of the new technology.

But, in regards to the first point: It is bad because it creates a wider gap between the rich and poor. I reiterate my earlier comment, economic disparity hasn't stopped the progress of technology in the past.

Whether or not everyone could afford one, telephones, television, and rapid transport continued developing, growing, etc. In fact, they continued and in doing so, became more accessible to more people. Furthermore, many of the comments are limited exclusively to who "can afford a computer". I think this is a rather limited point. Simply because someone does not have a home computer does not mean they may not indirectly benefit from the current technologies. Although a person, does not have a computer at home (and granted this may put them at a disadvantage compared to someone who does) they may benefit indirectly.

In regards to the second point: "What should we do about it?" I'm not sure I know the answer to that one. In a prior comment, I mentioned public libraries, universities. Maybe we should funnel more tax money into publicly accessible computer technologies. I don't know. Also, of course, as with everything, the costs will drop as time goes on.
Tammy 350

Tue Dec 2 18:24:21 PST 1997 - DEATH COMES TO ALL THAT DISOBEY GOODALL. I HALTH STRIKE ALL DISBELIEVERS!

Tue Dec 2 18:07:50 PST 1997 - The discussion between the rich and poor doesn't stop the progression of other technologies. Tammy 350

Tue Dec 2 18:03:17 PST 1997 - What is going to happen to the people who are unable to afford the cost of the computer? There is a widening economic gap between the rich and the poor, so there will be a large portion left out of the cyber-circle.

Tue Dec 2 18:00:09 PST 1997 - What do you mean "quite happily?"

Tue Nov 25 10:27:06 PST 1997 - Regarding the internet wave: The internet (phenomenon?) is the latest development in a trend towards increased computerization in our daily lives. Remember the days before personal computing when kilobytes actually meant something? Today, the catch phrases are Gigabytes, World Wide Web, etc. Our culture is at the forefront of a "digital revolution". (or so I've read!) Regardless whether you have a personal computer at home or not, I'll bet most people in America have at least several computers in various guises at home. If you own a car you probably own several computers. --or if you own a microwave, a television, anything with a remote control, a camera, a security system, --you get the point.

We've already lost the war against computers. The vanguard has arrived and established more digital beachfronts than you can count. The internet broadens our capacity to interact with people on a neighborhood or even a global scale. Just as revolutionary as the printing press, the internet virtually eliminates distance from communication. The next movement will certainly involve greater integration of technologies and increased emphasis on usability/user friendliness. As a user, our home, our school, our work, and our play is irrevocably tied to computers. The internet, or more likely some mutation of the internet, will integrate most of these functions into a system from which all of us will have to subscribe for every imaginable service. Most importantly, the opportunity to connect on the internet will be inexpensive, require little "new" hardware, and become essential for living comfortably. The internet really represents a new integration between individual households, business, work, school, and government. Prepare to be assimilated! (quite happily!)
Scott, 350

Last Round:

GK